Caray, Caray!

Thanks for the discussion space CxA. I look forward to the recap.

Oh Freddy, why must the good die young?

Lucio seemed to show remorse to having killed him and Papa Franky. The fact he is a murderer makes him Rubio 2.0 but in all fairness, he's more like Memo.
 

Well, he didn't kill PF but he did leave him for dead.
 

I am really looking forward to your recap Count.

Lucio is a murderer who somehow managed to garner a scintilla of sympathy from me because of the circumstances of his first murder as a child, being goaded by Fausto.

But when he stalked and threw that lovely young man off the roof, I started crying and wondered how I could be so gullible as to feel sorry for such a vicious human being.

That scene haunted me and I wasn't able to sleep. This show is dark and disturbing.

Diana
 

Wow! I'm so glad I didn't watch this last night, based on what I'm reading in the comments. Lucio killed poor little Freddy?!! Don't think I'll be watching my recording either.
 

Yeah, that was not pleasant at all. In the previous episode Lucio was following Freddy around, but I thought they were just trying to make us think Freddy was the victim, and then throw in a twist and reveal the true plan. But when Lucio pushed Freddy off the roof, I gasped and couldn't believe it. What good is it if he loves his own kid, if he is capable of killing others'? Horrible.

On a related note, his kid Max finally showed a different side, actually demonstrating a non-self-centered feeling, when trying to comfort Toño.
 

This comment has been removed by the author.
 

CxA
Thank you so much for putting up a discussion page. I'm just catching up with the episodes and think I'll fast forward through the scene with Lucio killing Simona's son.

As Diana said this story is dark, with the repeated rape of Renata, the killing of the good Padre, the cold-blooded murder of Pablo at the beginning. I hope I can hang in for the duration.

Can't wait to read your recap.
 

Agree with you Diana. This has been a rough one, and after yesterday's murder, I clicked it off and it's off my watching list. From what I've read today from other sites I am one of many, and expect that this TN will get the bum's rush as others have. Viewers are dropping off rather quickly.
 

I think what tn writers need to remember is that even when writing a very dark tn, you should give the audience hope of something. Even if it's a side story or side couple. Speaking of things to hope for, how did Renata's surgery go, and did Connie manage to hold on to the gun?
 

Vivi, unfortunately there's bad news for both your questions. Ren didn't regain her sight. Pat felt really bad about it. Fausto was kinda making a scene at the hospital like "I told you so".

Connie ended up giving the gun to Benito who convinced her that it was dangerous for her to have the gun in her possession. He gave it to Mac. Mac however told Lucio's that she would hold on to it.
 

Damn! Come on, writers! Thanks, TF.
 

Thanks so much TF for summing up all the remaining unhappy and disappointing events of last night.

I rather shamefacedly admit that I was so caught up in the murder, all else faded from my recollection last night. I couldn't believe Renata did not regain her sight! How terrible.

I completely understand why you are leaving Anonymous at 10:24. Like Victoria, I am trying to stay with this although it's getting harder.

And yes Vivi, hope and light are so important! As I have said often, sometimes they are all we have.

Diana
 

I enjoy this story, especially Meliton's pimp slap.

Barragan admitted to Meliton that Pablo was his (step)son and that Pablo left the house when he had a huge argument with him. Pablo's mom received letters from him but they all of a sudden stopped.

They didn't think anything of it at first but after they heard nothing for months, and after authorities shrugged their shoulders he decided to become a cop to find out what happened to Pablo.

So Barragan is Abi's grandfather.

I think Barragan was asking Fausto's friend with the black leather jacket to investigate Freddy's fall. Meliton came strolling up on the scene. Fausto's friend told Barragan that oh well, tsk tsk Freddy's fall was an accident & there would be no investigation.

Words between Meliton & Friend of Fausto ensued, then Meliton said "Well THIS is an accident" and pimp slapped Friend of Fausto.

After giving his condolences to Simona, Meliton headed to jail.


 

Oh, let's see:

After getting the gun Benito told Connie that Bruno was dead, dontcha remember, he keeled over at Renata's wedding. Connie got upset and told Benito to leave.

I think the operation probably did work but it's too soon to tell and she'll probably miraculously see on the last episode.
 

Anon207- That slap sounds great. Was the friend you mentioned the current mayor? He's usually the one hanging with Fausto and helping to cover his crimes. I don't think Barragan has any more authority there, since the mayor had him transferred to another town.
 

Poor Simona!
 

I think one reason that I am able to stay tuned is that I saw the original or last version with Victoria Ruffo, Fernando Colunga, and Cesar Evora. Although I must say that version was tame compared to this one.

I don't understand this producer's propensity for rape scences, e.g. LQLVMR.
 

Vivi,

Yes that was who was pimpslapped by Meliton, the mayor.

Meliton was mad at Barragan for not doing anything about all the people dying in "accidents" and felt he was in league with Fausto & Friends.

That's when Barragan revealed to Meliton that:

*He was Pablo's dad, so finding out what happened to him was personal

*He was being transferred to another town far, far away to prevent him from sniffing around

*He would be back to avenge Pablo's death

I want to say Barragan revealed all of this to Meliton in the jail cell.

That slap was a thing of beauty because it went something like this:

Meliton: Sure seems to be a whole bunch of accidents happening around here. Why don't y'all start investigating all these people dying in this town?

Mayor: Blah blah blah Freddy's death was an accident.

Meliton: Well *THIS* is an accident, too ***pimp slaps mayor***
 

Did anyone notice how Simona reacted to Fausto's consolation spiel? She looked up at him, as if to say something, something. Instead she just said thank you Fausto.
I think perhaps Tia Mia might have been Bruno's lover. Her son, who is in prison, might have been his lovechild. perhaps Fausto put him in jail so he would not have any claim on The Hacienda. Dont know about the second part, but Mia was a sensuous movie star in her day. So, I think that its a possibility that son is Fabian Robles.
 

Also I forgot to mention, the mysterious way that Fausto declined to help free Tia Mia's son from prison when Diana asked for his help. He was like "no way." Like he had his very own reasons.
 

I do not believe Rens surgery was not succesful .If watching drama taught me anything is that apperances can be deceiving. I think she was lying to protect her family ,i could feel she would have told the great news but when Satan entered the room she pulled the fog.

So my crackpot theory is : Ren can now see loud and clear!

Lucifer pissed me the most ,if at once i felt pity for him ,now he is dead in life for me,his stinking dirty cash did not help much to illuminate the amount of pain he caused ,that SOB and Satan needs to be Hanged on the trees like the Freaking Mussolini!
 

We now know for sure that Pablo was not Barragan's biological son and that he raised him from the time he was a toddler on up.

So that begs the question: Who was Pablo's father?
 

Thank you for the terrific recap Count. "SOB Lucifer ( He is freaking dead to me right now down once and for all!)" was perfection. Darn straight.

I am so sick of justifying the prohibition of free will, speech or action by the utterance "my woman". Blech. Fausto and Marcellino, I am looking at you (as susanlynn would say)...

Ano207 thank you for the added details and I thoroughly enjoyed the slap.

Victoria, I believe I saw snippets of this some time ago when rerun and remember only that Cesar was wonderful. Now he is a good looking man but that rich baritone is his crowning glory. I could see attracting women with that voice. Sergio? Not so much. I believes Aracely Arámbula alsowas in it along with Pablo Montero.

Novella lover, I expected Simona to be very cool to Fausto. Because of her reaction, I am wondering if Freddy could have been Fausto's son? Pure speculation.

Interesting theory about Fabian being Bruno's son. He was such a brute - I don't know how Connie put up with him, let alone anyone else but that would certainly explain Fausto's reluctance to free him.

Diana
 

My guess is that Pablo is the result when Young Fausto mated with Lilith from Hell,anything is possible . Or Bruto had his nasties with frogs at the pond

But the mystery remains from what Hell did Lucio came to be? I thought he was eating soups with Hellena but one day turned Lucifer,did he kill his pets and parents too?
 

CountX: I would like to believe your theory that Renata can see. I think it's a 50/50 chance your are correct, although there are hints against the sight-theory, e.g. Renata would have indicated to Abigail that she could see and she didn't. Why?

 

The plot to stop Simona from being the next 'mayor' of this village seems a bit stretched.
Who thought up the strategy? Fausto or Lucio? OK: Here's the 'plot' -- stand around and watch Freddie. Then kill him, somehow. Freddie wins in a game (of chance) and gets the soccer ball. He hits a bystander who, by chance, kicks it onto a roof. Freddie goes to get it and Lucio pushes him off the roof. Result: Simona will be too distraught to run for mayor. Really?
 

Thanks for part 1 Count.

Wow! Me too. I was wondering if Renata was faking it. I guess that we will see tonight if she can see or not. Anyway, I was expecting her to yell at devil dog and tell him to get out of her hospital room--she didn't. Why

Poor Freddy. I was thinking that if he landed close to the building, then it would have looked like he just fell from the tall building but if he landed a few feet away from it---well, then it would be apparent that he would have been pushed with great force. Of course none of the towns people thought of that.

Pure speculation on my part but I was thinking last night that devil dog came to the funeral when everyone was there to act sad and pay his phony respects to Simona but at some later point when he could get Simona alone, he would inform her that if she doesn't cool her campaign then her other son would get it too.

Connie GAVE UP THE GUN, DAMN!! Now
Macaria has it back. Boy that gun is really getting around. Where will it go next?
the gringo


 

Yeah Gringo i am thinking that Ren can see now,the reaon she hides it from everyone else is for their security.

As for the recap ,the second half will be done tommorow but it will come quite late since i am work at time ,i will try to write tommorow as much as i can!
Or someone could write the second half for me and i simply copy paste it in my recap with credits included,.
 

Thanks for Part 1. Looking forward to the rest.

At first I was like "Why kill Freddy?" but then later it hit me. Fausto wants to sabotage Sim's campaign. He probably thinks she will be too distraught to continue her run so he will win by default.

I was surprised Melitón didn't already know Barragan's secret. Even though he wasn't Pablo's bio dad, he raised him and obviously also wants justice to be served in Pablo's death.

As I've said before, I need clues that tell me Ren isn't blind. I do think she was blind after the accident but it could be different now that she has had surgery. I do hope she isn't lying because Pat did really feel bad about it.
 

Countx,,
Thanks for your part 1 recap. Looking forward to the rest.

Like many of you, I was shocked by Freddy's death. I could not believe what Lucio did. He cannot be redeemed.

My theory is that Ren's surgery was successful, she just can not see yet. I think some time will pass and then out if the blue she will slowly regain her eyesight. But I think she will keep it a secret from most people. No spoilers, just my crackpot theory!
 

Hi everyone!

I am noticing something on here that I am also noticing on the 'La Sombra del Pasado' page, which is giving me enough pause, and enough anxiety that I wanted to mention it to you all, as I enjoy the various 'patios' and in-general 'communities' here immensely...

That being, the revulsion that so many of you have to violence in the shows that you are watching. This bothers me in many ways... and not in the LEAST that I am some sadist or any such creature... but because I worry at your collective responses in regards to the quality of shows that we get on our varying Telenovela-producing networks.

Because, I, for one, have no tolerance for the saccharine-sweet, diabetes-inducing 'comedies' such as MCET. Indeed, I have since been subjected to re-runs of both 'La Fea Mas Bella', 'La Familia con Suerte', and 'Marido en Alquiler' and, in EACH case (and I KNOW that I am a minority in this respect but, still, being a minority does NOT mean that my voice does not matter) but, in each case, I felt somewhat INSULTED by what I was watching... OVER-acting (I couldn't BELIEVE that the same over-acting Daniela Castro as Pina was the same woman as in LQLVMR, amongst other protagonista roles), stock characters (as a gay man, I wanted to bitch-slap every 'gay character' on these shows as-were-presented), cheap sets, and just, in general... BAD! I recall a saying- I don't know by whom- saying that "one can never go wrong by appealing to the lowest common denominator in us all" (or words to that effect. THIS... seems to me, to be the state of telenovelas as they now stand.
 

That being SAID, then... 'where' the hell, am I coming from, and 'why' am I spouting off like this???

It's because of the reactions and the responses from people HERE (who I respect) at what they are watching....

Namely:

"TOO violent!"

"Unnecessary!"

"TOO dark!"

"I am fast-forwarding!!!!"

This bothers me immensely. I will now tell you why, but (if you will forgive me), would prefer to use an analogy....

It has been widely accepted that, of all of the works of William Shakespeare, 'King Lear' is one of, if not his ULTIMATE work. 'Hamlet' may be the greater PLAY, but 'Lear' is perhaps his greatest work. Why?

Because 'Hamlet' is more intensely PERSONAL. It is, in essence, a FAMILY drama that we see unfold, and the emotions, etc. are likewise what appeal to us PERSONALLY.

With Lear... his scope is bigger. There is a reason why the darkness and savagery in Lear is as BLACK and as EVIL as it is.... the heroes in 'Lear' are... not just old men, but FATHERS, and trusting old men.... and those that do evil unto them are their own FLESH AND BLOOD- healthy, and whom they have TRUSTED! And the evil done unto them is FAR and BEYOND what is done in Hamlet. In what other literary drama can you find two young, virile, characters (Regan and Cornwall) GAUGING THE EYES OUT of an old man who was- PREVIOUSLY- someone they respected???

I argue that, as in Lear- where dark is SO DARK (for this reason, in reference to Shakespearean villains, there is little mention of Goneril & Regan... because they are just SHEER BLACKNESS and EVIL, not even possessing of the intriguing or charming qualities of Iago or Edmund), but, as in Lear, we enter a word- be it the rapes of Severiano in LSDP (which, BTW, were likewise perpetuated by his 'El Manantial' counterpart Justo), or the crimes of Fausto/Lucio in QTPD (which, likewise, were perpetuated in AMF by Cesar Evora's Federico (indeed, in AMF, 'Fredy's' counterpart 'Chiquilin' was even YOUNGER), put us into a darker place...

BUT..... the reason why 'Lear' is considered such a magnificent work of human achievement is... BECAUSE of all of this BLACKNESS, all of this DARK... at the end, you (the reader) is aware that those characters that suffered through all of this.... that they achieved something- an awareness, a sentiment- some such thing- that was so BEAUTIFUL that ALL OF THAT SUFFERING became somewhat... worthwhile.

For ME.... in my novelas... I want my baddies to be BAD. I WANT (and NOT because I'm some sort of sadist or anything), but I WANT horrible and unseemly things to be done to those protagonists that I have grown to care about.... AND, what's more.... the WORSE, the BETTER... BECAUSE, I have FAITH, that in the end... ALL WILL BE REDEEMED. (Hell, 'King Lear' couldn't even say that... it remains magnificent because we feel that all suffering and turmoil was worth it for how everybody turned out... even WITH them all still dying!!!).

So... PLEASE... DO NOT threaten to write your networks if what you are seeing is displeasing to you. Instead, turn to re-runs of 'La Fea Mas Bella', or some such crowd-pleasing tripe (I know I should probably look for a better term here, but, in this instance, the phrase 'calling a 'spade' a 'f**king shovel' just seems to apply so perfectly) and, instead, let the writers to their job!!! AND... just take solace in the fact that they will reward your patience, in the end. Christ, has there ever BEEN a novela where 'evil' triumphs, totally and completely???

NO! So... let these bad things happen to these people we grow to care about. TRUST ME.... like in 'Lear', it'll make the END, SO MUCH MORE satisfying...

Thank you all for letting me get this off my chest. And.... please... KEEP WATCHING, LOVING, RESPONDING, AND COMMENTING!!!

Siate felice,

Stevey
 

Wow! I enjoy reading what you just wrote. Although, I too, have been so disturbed by the dark novelas, all the maldad, I see your point. Like Diana , I get perturbed at myself when I feel bad and when I give my sympathy to a shady character then boom, he does something even more despicable.
I get anxious, sad and depressed when rapes occur, or when bad things happen to good people. I watch novelas to forget about my problems, then I end up with even more anxiety. However, I totally cannot watch any if those sugary comedies that you mentioned. I cant even have them on, because they grate my nerves something fierce. Given the two choices, I will stick to my dark novelas. I will remind myself repeatedly "its only a telenovela with actors playing their roles." Thank you for sharing your bold sentiments, that is why I hold "caray" blog in such high regard, because everyone states their opinon and it is respected even if people agree or not. I also enjoyed the comparisons to Hamlet and Lear.
 

Stevey its not that we do not like violent shows because we are quite used to it. But it becomes problematic when there is little to no hope involved,when they are just evil.
I agree that Televisa is hideous at creating comedies but shows dark as Lo que La Vida Me Robo were just as bad. At first i loved that show but it just turned way too dark,so dark that some characters lost their worth and value,we just wanted it to END ,we even began rooting for Fofito and Joker Pedro to kill them all atleast I did!
 

Dark novels without debth*

La Maquerida was perfect at it ,it was not over the top ,the acting was perfect and all of the characters had relevance until the end.
 

Hello! I'm not quite sure where to post this, but I'm hoping that it will reach the eyes of our benevolent 'blog mammas' on here, just in regards to an idea that I have and would like to pursue...

That being said, let it be known that I work on the internet and, perhaps resultant of such (I don't have to try and hide what I'm doing should my Boss walk by), I'm aware of how many scintillating, tittilating, stimulating moments there presently are out there on the internet, at least in regards to the world of telenovelas.

Thus, my question is this.... is there any way, (and would your readers even be INTERESTED in) a post- every week, once a week, that draws attention to an important event in a novela, previously unknown to most its viewers? I am pretty sure that I've got enough scope and knowledge (at the risk of sounding immodest), that I think that I could come up with something, weekly, that viewers would both ENJOY, and would ALSO appreciate, in terms of illuminating and introducing them to something, in this genre that we all love so much, that they previously knew very little about.

Of course, any and all submissions would be submitted to you and our 'Blog-Momma-Masters' beforehand for the ultimate approval (just to ensure that they contain no spoilers in regards to anything going on within the 'CarayCaray' community at the time, as well as to ensure they meet the basic (high) standards with which this site is known for... ;-)

And so, that being said, please let me know what you all think: I am proposing, basically, a weekly video-posting to an interesting/famous (whatever that word means) telenovela moment, with an introduction and invitation to respond to same. Would any of you be interested in this and, (even more importantly)- blog Mammas- is this indeed possible???

With my best wishes to all, as ever and always....

Stevey :-)
 

Stevey:

Let me first say how much I appreciated your comments. Even though I'm not a recapper, and couldn't pretend to be one, I hold the belief that, apart from personal attacks, everyone in the "Caray, Caray" community has the right to comment on anything and everything that is happening in a novela that may or may not be in relation to the fiction we are watching or how what we are seeing is related to something in real life (be it an event, person, etc.) or related to something we can compare.

I don't speak on behalf of 'BlogMom' so I can't say what the true intentions of this blog are.

One thing I appreciate about Urban's (and others') comments are the earworms (more for the memories of some of them) and her (them) relating a novela scene or character to something she (they) has had the privilege of experiencing; case in point, opera as related to IkkyLizard (or in reality, Lisardo's voice) or a good book that I might have not read.

IMHO, I think a great many of us watch novelas for the entertainment value (anyday over a "boobtube" reality or comedy show for me), the romance, or the short escape from our everyday problems. I know that two novelas that I watched that had unconventional endings or an ending I wasn't prepared for, hit me like a ton of bricks! I wondered why I had wasted so much time watching a novela where the prince on his shining horse didn't get his princess in the end. Maybe this is a female thing, where even if we were tomboys like myself, we where still indoctrinated with typical old fashion male/female roles and the fantasy of finding our Knight some day. I like to think this is changing in today's society.

I prefer that the protagonists work hard and experience life's challenges, trickery and dirty deeds by others, and some event that leads to their reuniting in the end or before. In the same vein, I like when the antagonists are really really bad and then great BIG anvils fall on them in proportion to their evilness. One reason why it is so hard for me to truly hate or despise Isabruja is that, to me personally, she has walked a thin line with her evil character. Sure she has commited truly despicable acts, but how far she has slid into evilness is relative to othantagonists (LC in 'Amor Bravío). However that being said, an appropriate anvil should still fall on her pretty, so admired head. MCET is the first and last comedy I will watch unless JS stars in another one!

Also in IMHO and admitting to the sexist nature of this opinion, maybe the 'male on female' rape scenes are troubling to watch because it's something that happens more frequently to the female sex, while in comparison my watching Sergio Sendel in LQLVMR wasn't nearly as troubling. Is this because Pedro (SS) was such a truly evil character and deserved the heaviest of all anvils? With all honesty, I can't really say.

I have also learned that a stupid, annoying, dumb, assh**e like AU (Johnny) in MCET is infinitely more annoying than evil antagonists !!!

Also I love your idea about a weekly discussion page.!

Finally in closing, I appreciated you expressing your comments and opinions.
 

Joker Pedro from Robo did not get anything nearly as big as an anvil as did Graciela who is tortured everyday and getting insulted by every single one of them besides having no home. Joker was an extremely terryfying villian but in the end he only got a prison sentence ,he is probably getting beaten up every single day i guess .He and Graciela were so bad that death was not worthy of them ! If Pedro one day entered Hell he would have most likely take over it. As for Graciela ,everyone in Hell would get bankrupt :)
 

Countx

Love it!!! So true, hell and bankruptcy! ! Too bad no one knew what what happened to Graciela in the end
 

Thanks Stevey for that perspective. It was a great wake up call and almost like "permission" to just enjoy the show, knowing we're not bad for tuning in even though some bad things happen. Novella Lover, "bold sentiments" sums up the post perfectly for me.
 

Part 2 is now finished ,feel free to read! :)
 

Just catching up CS and Lucio DID Kill PF because he cut the brake line on PF's car before PF left town to say Mass In the neighboring town. He knew PF was driving to say Mass, and set the whole accident up. He wasn't expecting PF to still be alive when he walked up to him laying on the ground after the wreck, so he was stunned when PF looked up and reached his hand out. Lucio, may have felt one little iota of guilt which is why he ran away and didn't help PF.